Digging Up Rocks

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00:02
George Gavrilis
Describe to me how your daughter would describe to somebody what Mom does.

00:06
Laura Tedesco
Oh, that's a good question. She has an idea. Well, we would have to ask her. So, when I went to Afghanistan for the first time, she had just turned one. So she didn't know anything. And then over the years, she's observed me traveling there frequently. And I think she's had an idea that I do something related to culture. But beyond that, we'd have to hear from her what she thinks now as a, you know, a preteen.

00:41
George Gavrilis
This is Monuments Woman with Laura Tedesco. I'm your host George Gavrilis. If you are new to this podcast, we recommend going back to start with Episode 1. For everyone else, welcome back. Let's jump in.

01:00
George Gavrilis
We're talking about Afghanistan. Can you stretch your memories back a little bit? What do you first remember about your mom going off to Afghanistan and what she told you?

01:11
Eva
Um, I just remember her always packing up her suitcase, like there was always a suitcase just sitting on her floor, and it was always full. Or, there'd just be like a couple of things in it that would just— they'd just be there. But I never liked it when she traveled.

01:27
George Gavrilis
Why?

01:28
Eva
Because I just miss my mom, so. I had some fun memories with my dad. But, she always kind of, like, prepared me for when she left and I would always go with my dad to the airport with her.

01:38
Eva
And, I'd call her a lot. And I'd remember her, like, showing me the tour of her room, but it was really a bin, with like a tiny shower. She moved to Afghanistan for a year right after I was born. So I don't remember that.

01:51
George Gavrilis
That's right, 'coz when she first went, she went for a long time.

01:53
Eva
She went for a year, yeah, to, like, set off her job. And then I remember her going to super cool places and her just bringing back little trinkets for me.

02:04
George Gavrilis
How old were you at the time when she went for a year?

02:07
Eva
I think I was one, one and a half.

02:09
George Gavrilis
Oh my gosh. Do you have memories of that, that far back?

02:11
Eva
No, I think my furthest memory was— I was two going on three.

02:16
George Gavrilis
Okay. So she had been there for a year or two, at that point.

02:19
Eva
Yeah, the farthest I can remember her traveling is, like here, like in this house. But I remember her traveling, and just whenever she'd leave, it was from a week to two weeks, and she'd show me the pictures from when she got back, and she'd call me and like, I'd check in with her.

02:39
Eva
And it was always super hard to call her, cause it was like such a different time zone. So if it was 7:00 PM then I would always call her, because it was like the sweet spot to call her. And she was always up early, and she'd tell me about the news channel she was watching. She had a fashion news channel and then these news channels that she'd tell me that she was watching.

02:58
George Gavrilis
Tell me about the container that she lived in.

03:01
Eva
I remember asking her, 'coz she was telling me about how she was in Dubai, and it was so extravagant. So when she told me that she was in Afghanistan— I thought Dubai and Afghanistan were the same thing—

03:13
Eva
So, when she told me she was in Afghanistan and she lived in a shipment container, I was like, what? I thought you lived in, like, five-star hotels. She was, like, no, I live in a little shipment container with a bed, a desk, and tiny shower and a toilet. And that was it.

03:30
Eva
And I remember I had a stuffed animal that I gave to her when she was gone. So she can remember me. And she sent me a picture of her bed with the stuffed animal on it. And it was, "I have your stuffed animal with me." That was really sweet. I really liked it.

03:47
George Gavrilis
How did she talk about what she was there to do?

03:50
Eva
I thought what she did was she dug up rocks and then she'd show me pictures of different, like, cultural things, just statues and stuff. So I thought she dug up statues or looked at those.

04:02
Eva
And I kind of knew what archaeology was, but she explained it to me, like, she was there to help provide for the people there and give them, like, an understanding that someone cares about their culture and that she's there to help it, and preserve it.

04:18
George Gavrilis
Did you have a sense of, well, now you know that Afghanistan is pretty dangerous, but back then, was she upfront with you about how dangerous it was?

04:31
Eva
No, because she knew that I'd worry about it. So I don't really remember her telling me that it was not safe. 

04:35
George Gavrilis
So when did you realize how dangerous it was?

04:39
Eva
I think I got the sense when I saw pictures of her with people, and she was like, wearing— that one picture of her with the helmet on?

04:48
George Gavrilis
The flak jacket.

04:50
Eva
Yeah. I was like, Oh, I feel like I always kind of got a sense that it was dangerous. I thought it was just like smack dab desert with a couple of houses and it was like a village, just right in the center of a desert. That's what I imagined that she was in.

05:03
Eva
But then, she's talking about the embassy in Kabul and stuff like that. So I thought, Oh, there's people like her there, so it's not, like, dangerous. And then, I kind of figured out when I got older that there was definitely, like, a danger in Afghanistan.

05:19
George Gavrilis
For that year, do you remember what life was like back here with you and your brother and your dad?

05:24
Eva
Without her?

05:25
George Gavrilis
Hmm.

05:26
Eva
No, I don't. I don't remember that far back but I do remember finding a postcard. I was going through old stuff and I remember finding a postcard from when she was gone. And it was just like a sweet postcard that she sent to us. And I remember it saying mommy, from mommy, but we never called her that.

05:44
George Gavrilis
What do you mean?

05:45
Eva
At the end of the postcard, it said from mommy, but I, I was like, that's weird, I never called her that. Why did she sign it from mommy if I never called her that?

05:52
George Gavrilis
What were you calling her?

05:54
Eva
Mama or Mom? Or something like that. Yeah. I never really called her that, so I was confused on why she would sign it that way.

06:08
George Gavrilis
I'm curious. What, what kinds of things were you doing here during her long trips? Like, you, your dad, your brother?

06:15
Eva
Oh, that was— I have a lot of fun, fond memories from when my mom was gone. Not that I enjoy my mom being gone, but I always remember our kitchen being so dirty and full of dishes in the sink.

06:28
George Gavrilis
Um, you mean your dad never washed the dishes.

06:29
Eva
My dad never cleaned and it was always, like, if we wanted a dish, we'd have to clean ourselves. And he tried so hard. We'd have these like crappy dinners from Food Lion.

06:39
George Gavrilis
Oh, Food Lion is that doo-doo butter grocery store here?

06:42
Eva
Yeah, yeah. In Charleston. It was bagged lasagna in the frozen aisle. And he'd pop that in the oven, or we'd have like buttered pasta, 'coz he knew I liked it.

06:52
George Gavrilis
It's kind of funny, though, 'coz your dad's from France... which is like—

06:55
Eva
Yeah…

06:56
George Gavrilis
...the food capital of the world …

06:58
Eva
But he never really knew how to cook. Unless it was the oldest dish he knew of. But my fondest memories of my mom being gone was my dad always trying to entertain me and Leo.

07:11
George Gavrilis
What kinds of things would he do?

07:12
Eva
We have so many DVDs, like tons of movies. So what my dad would do, is me and my brother would both pick two movies, and my dad would put them under a towel. And he'd switch them around and we both had to pick one, so we'd both pick those ones out. So the two that me and Leo picked, he'd put under another towel and switch those up and my brother would go out and pick one and I'd be in the other room. So I didn't see what he picked. And then I came out and I picked one.

07:39
Eva
And then if we decided on one, then we'd watch that movie no matter what it was. So it was a fair way of getting a movie. It was either a Barbie movie or a Star Wars movie. And I have memories of making my brother watch Barbie 12 Dancing Princesses. Or we'd watch the third Star Wars movie. That's what I remember.

08:00
George Gavrilis
These are awesome memories.

08:02
Eva
Yeah. And I remember, until about the age of nine, I always slept in my mom's spot on her bed whenever she was gone. And then I'd sleep with her scarf that smelled like her. I'd sleep with the scarf in her spot on the bed, because it just reminded me of her. So I'd sleep with her scarf in my hand, and I'd just sleep there for the night.

08:22
Eva
And then about at age nine, my brother was like, you're such a baby. So then I was like, yeah, you know what? I don't really need to anymore. So I just— I just felt like I didn't need to.

08:31
George Gavrilis
Why did you think you grew out of that?

08:33
Eva
I think I had a realization, that it's not like my mom's gone forever and I'm not gonna, like— I have other ways of getting closer to her than just sleeping in her spot when she's not there. But it, it was fun, 'coz I had a huge bed. So it was little me in their bed with her scarf.

08:51
Eva
And I have memories of me and my brother sleeping in that bed. Just the two of us. I'm guessing my dad slept on the couch, so we'd have room for the two of us. And me and my brother were always fighting. So my dad, we have this whip and he'd pushed my brother to each end of the bed and he'd whip the middle and as like a way of, like, separating us.

09:12
George Gavrilis
[laughing]

09:13
Eva
It was obviously a joke. I thought it was so funny because me and my brother would just start laughing cause it'd like, shake the bed. So we know that we cannot get in that center line.

09:21
George Gavrilis
That's hilarious.

09:27
George Gavrilis
How did you explain to your friends what your mom was doing?

09:29
Eva
Well, I remember third grade, my teachers were, like, obviously super interested in what my mom did. My mom liked to come to my classes to tell the kids what she did. And she'd bring in artifacts and she'd bring in pictures for all my classmates.

09:45
Eva
And I remember before that, I was talking with the teachers and my friends and I was like, she's an archaeologist. She digs up stuff and she finds things from, like, 1980, and that's, she's, like, super cool.

09:57
George Gavrilis
You said 1980?

09:58
Eva
Yeah, because I had no recollection of, like, what she was doing. And in third grade, there was this little pit by our playground, and we'd find the randomest stuff in there and we'd dig it and I called it the archaeology club. And of course I was the leader because I knew the most about it, even though I had no idea what I was talking about.

10:17
Eva
Someone found a bottle cap once. And I was like, that's a war button from the revolutionary war. And I told people that, and they believed me because I was, like, I'm an archaeologist now, so. I told everyone that I knew everything about it. And I made everyone believe that I was super cool because my mom was an archaeologist.

10:36
George Gavrilis
Did you ever see Indiana Jones?

10:39
Eva
Oh, that was one of the movies that my brother picked. So I watched those and I asked my mom once, I was like, why did you become an archaeologist? Is it from Indiana Jones? And she was like, no, that's just, that's what other people pick, not what I pick.

10:54
George Gavrilis
So, but you know, when people think of archaeology, they think that that's what you do, that you're basically running around and ...

11:01
Eva
...digging up rocks... 

11:02
George Gavrilis
...digging up rocks... and running from walls that are crushing you and trying to get like big golden arcs and stuff like that.

11:09
Eva
Yeah. Exactly what everyone thinks.

11:12
George Gavrilis
It sounds very exciting and romantic and scary.

11:16
Eva
But it's, it's really just like, it's not, it's romanticized too much.

11:19
George Gavrilis
Well, I kind of think of your mom as the female Indiana Jones.

11:24
Eva
Really?

11:25
George Gavrilis
Yeah. Even though I know she's not running down a tunnel with a huge boulder rolling after her. Right?

11:30
Eva
Oh yeah. Of course.

11:31
George Gavrilis
That famous scene.

11:32
Eva
Whenever we'd watch different movies, my dad, he tried so hard to entertain us and I love him for that, but he never really knew what to do with a six-year-old and a ten-year-old so he took what me and Leo both wanted to do and he combined it.

11:46
George Gavrilis
Sounds like he had really great instincts about what to do to keep you two entertained.

11:51
Eva
And me and my brother, we would always compete on who would get what. And so my dad would put that on. It was like, we got to pick whatever we wanted. And any movie we wanted, it didn't have to be anything special.

12:09
George Gavrilis
So when your mom would come back after these long trips, how do you catch up with her? What do you do?

12:14
Eva
I'd go to the airport to pick her up and then we'd find her and she'd come to the car. She'd asked me how I was like, how was school. And it just felt like we were right back where we were. Cause you know, like I called her and talked to her while she was out. We didn't have much catching up to do, because I had talked to her throughout the whole thing. Yeah.

12:33
George Gavrilis
What about Leo? How did Leo handle her absence?

12:37
Eva
Leo? I—me and Leo never really talked about it on that level. He never really talked about it. He talked to her too, though. Whenever I'd get the phone, I'd always be, like, do you wanna talk to Leo? And then I'd hand the phone to Leo, and Leo, they would talk for a little bit. Because like my mom and my brother kind of have a little connection.

12:57
George Gavrilis
Like what's their connection?

12:58
Eva
They always kind of had a thing where they'd know what each other were thinking. It was really, like, it was cute.

13:04
George Gavrilis
That is really sweet. Yeah.

13:05
George Gavrilis
Maybe this is a difficult question to ask. Are you closer to your dad?

13:10
Eva
I've always kind of realized, he loves me so much. He loves me so much. And my mom always reminds me of that because anytime, like I'd say something, he'd be like, Oh my gosh, of course, anything. He always kind of had, like a loving, like, of course, anything for you. And my mom was always like, I mean, do you really want that? Are you going to want that in two years? He never questioned it. He was like, of course, anything for you, and my mom…

13:37
George Gavrilis
Your mom has a more rational approach.

13:39
Eva
Yeah, she's more like, she's more rational about it. My dad was just like, no. Anything for you! Anything, anything you want! I'm really close with both of them.

13:47
George Gavrilis
Yeah.

13:48
Eva
I always admired the way my mom and my dad parented me. And sometimes my mom would say something, I'd be like, that's not fair. But when I look back on it, it's like, that's how I'd raise my kid. If my kid wants to buy a big box of fruit roll-ups, that's, that's not good.

14:04
Eva
I mean, do what you want when you're older, but like, if you're young and you still need to eat healthy. So I got upset with her about not buying me the fruit roll-ups, and then I looked back on it, I was, like, no, that's how I'd treat my kid.

14:16
George Gavrilis
Hey, you know that your mom is kind of bummed out because she's worried she might never make it back to Afghanistan again.

14:24
Eva
hmm.

14:26
George Gavrilis
Does that bum you out?

14:28
Eva
Yeah, because she loves traveling. She loves it so much and I can tell she loves traveling, 'coz during the pandemic, she kind of took like a realization, like, that's my whole life out there.

14:39
Eva
So I really hope she travels again because she loves it so much. And she needs to get off her computer, because that's all she does. She's constantly on her computer, because that's her job, like she can't do anything else.

14:53
George Gavrilis
Even if it means that she gets to go back to Afghanistan?

14:55
Eva
If she gets to go back to Afghanistan, she's on the field, she's not on her computer.

15:01
George Gavrilis
But you'd be okay with that? You wouldn't worry.

15:03
Eva
No, because I know she's like—

15:06
George Gavrilis
Yeah, but you know it's gotten worse over there, right?

15:08
Eva
Really?

15:09
George Gavrilis
Yeah.

15:10
Eva
Yeah, I mean, I kind of had a feeling over the pandemic that it's not going to be the same way it was. But, if she loves traveling and I think she loves the adrenaline— I feel like she can handle it, that she's safe out there, I mean, she's not safe, but you know, she's good with stuff like that. So I thought. 

15:28
George Gavrilis
You're very supportive.

15:29
Eva
Yeah.

15:30
George Gavrilis
Where does that come from?

15:32
Eva
I don't know. I think it was just kind of like an understanding that she loves it so much and there's not much I can do about it. So you either— you fake it till you make it. Or if you can't fix it, then you just gotta stand there and, like, help. There's not much you can do. So I feel like if she loves it, then that's what she loves, and she should do it.

15:52
George Gavrilis
Eva, you're awesome. I hope Ulysses is like that when he's your age. Or he might be like, Dad, you jerk, you're traveling again. I totally hate you.

16:03
Eva
I was, I was like that with her—

16:05
George Gavrilis
You were?

16:06
Eva
—before. Yeah. I was like, why are you traveling again? I hate it when you travel, because I miss my mom. Like, I didn't want her to travel and all that. She's been home for a year, stuck at home with me. It's like, just get out, please. I know she loves traveling and I want her to go back. And she misses the people there and the opportunities.

16:24
George Gavrilis
Hey, thanks for making time to talk about this stuff.

16:28
Eva
Of course. I've been waiting.

16:30
George Gavrilis
[laughing] I'm sorry. It did take a while to get to it. Uly's a handful, you know, he doesn't leave much time for stuff. I guess we should go eat your mom's quiche now. Is it a quiche or a—

16:42
Eva
It's a tart.

16:43
George Gavrilis
Tart. Tart.

16:44
Eva
Get it right. Get it right, George.

16:45
George Gavrilis
I will. Oh no, I forgot to press the record button.

16:49
Eva
No.

16:50
George Gavrilis
Just kidding.

16:51
Eva
Oh, ok!

16:53
George Gavrilis
Totally kidding.

17:00
George Gavrilis
Initially you spent really long stretches of time in Afghanistan before it was more of a back and forth. You had two young kids back in Charleston, a husband. What goes through your mind?

17:12
Laura Tedesco
So, the work, while I was living full time in Kabul, was so consuming. I didn’t spend a lot of time thinking about my kids and what they were doing. I trusted that they were being well taken care of, and there was also this time difference. So, it wasn’t like, oh, I’m waking up, it’s eight in the morning, I wonder if my kids are getting ready for school right now. It was more like, it’s eight in the morning in Kabul, and eleven thirty at night in my home place, so there wasn’t this analogous time zone.

17:44
Laura Tedesco
So I didn’t miss my kids that much. I did miss them, but I wasn’t thinking about what they were doing and what milestones I was missing. And I was so excited by the work that I let it be all-consuming.

17:58
Laura Tedesco
And there were times when colleagues would find out I have had little kids, and they’d be like, isn’t it hard for you to be here? Don’t you miss your kids? And I felt guilty saying, I don’t miss them that much. It’s not that I was cold about it. It was just, I didn’t see a lot of point in pining for them. I knew they were being well cared for and receiving a lot of love, and it didn’t mean I didn’t love them as any mother would love her kids. It was just, I was 8,000 miles away and doing work that was very gratifying to me.

18:37
George Gavrilis
Early on they were very young though, so I guess when you get back and you see them, what do you do? How do you talk about things? How much do you tell about what your life is like over there?

18:47
Laura Tedesco
So I didn’t really even talk about my work at all. I still don’t, to them. They have only the vaguest idea of what I do for a living, and that’s fine. That’s not part of our daily conversation. I’m much more interested in what they’re doing every day, truly, and what challenges they’re facing. So my work is ancillary, and they were very little while I was away.

19:12
Laura Tedesco
I credit Franck in a huge way. He never spoke negatively about my absence to the children, so they had no frame of reference that my being away was somehow bad or wrong, and that’s to his credit.

19:28
George Gavrilis
That’s neat, yes.

19:30
Laura Tedesco
So he set the stage for that, that he never spoke negatively about it to the children or said anything like he resented me for being away. So— the kids then didn’t pick up on, oh, she’s away. That was never part of the vibe. Now that they’re older and they have minds of their own, when it’s time for me to travel, they give me little guilt trips about it. But I’m like, sorry, I got a job to do.

20:01
George Gavrilis
Are you that direct as you are right now?

20:02
Laura Tedesco
Yeah. I’m like, I know it’s hard, and you’re going to be okay, and I’ll call you when I get there, but this is Mom’s work, and this is what it requires. Aren’t you glad, you know, we can kind of be apart for a few days or two weeks or three weeks? That doesn’t really go over well.

20:19
Laura Tedesco
Partly because, you know why? They’ve come to depend on me to cook the good meals and to keep the house clicking along. And Franck does a good job, but he doesn’t do it the way a mom does it. He just does it differently. He’ll let stuff like the orange juice run out, and it’ll take him four days to get more orange juice. And the kids are like, well, Mom wouldn’t make us wait four days. And he’s like, well, you don’t need orange juice.

20:45
Laura Tedesco
This seems so mundane. It’s just a different parenting style. He’s like, they don’t need to have orange juice every day. They can drink water. What’s the big deal? So—

20:53
George Gavrilis
Well, every parent has things they prioritize more than others.

20:57
Laura Tedesco
Totally.

20:58
George Gavrilis
That’s always.

20:59
Laura Tedesco
You know what he prioritizes? He’s present for them. He doesn’t skimp on affection or showing his love for them.

21:05
George Gavrilis
Well, maybe that’s better than remembering the orange juice.

21:09
Laura Tedesco
It is. It is totally. That’s what will—yes, it is better. It’s much better.

21:13
George Gavrilis
I like how you describe him. [laughter]

21:17
Laura Tedesco
And he’s the one who lets them lay blankets out on the floor, and they’ll do movie nights together when I’m not home. Because that stuff drives me crazy.

21:24
George Gavrilis
Imagine that your kids are older and they’re listening to this. It can come across as very matter of fact, harsh even, so what would you tell them if they’re sitting where I am and they’re listening to you speak this?

21:41
Laura Tedesco
I would thank them— thank them for participating in my professional life, in their way of just being mostly supportive, and even the little guilt trips, by being like, wow, Mom, that’s great, or have fun.

21:56
George Gavrilis
That’s really sweet.

21:57
Laura Tedesco
Yes, I would thank them for sure. I hope they don’t resent me when they’re older. Maybe they will. I don’t know.

22:12
George Gavrilis
You've been listening to Monuments Woman with Laura Tedesco. I'm your host George Gavrilis. Don't forget to like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. To stay in touch, also follow us on Instagram, at the_monuments_woman. Join us next week when we dive deeper.

22:29

George Gavrilis
This show is produced by Christian D. Bruun and May Eleven Projects. It is recorded by Audivita Studios, and edited by Shaun Hettinger and Greg Williams. The theme song is This Love by Ariana Delawari, featuring Salar Nader.

Ep 6: Digging Up Rocks — Eva 

Topics Covered in this Episode 

Mom in Afghanistan

Dad in Charleston

Explaining to friends Mom's job

When Mom came home from trips

Mom vs. Dad

On Mom not being able to return to Afghanistan

Laura on family

Recorded on June 7, 2021